Joey Votto retires - chances of HOF ?

[djefferis]

So officially retired.

Stats wise - he is Hall of Very Good.

BUT - compare him to players of his era - I really think it’s closer than you think.

To me HOF should be an automatic for top 5% of players in their era. Votto is likely marginally at or just below that level - but also began at the tail end of steroid era.

Near a .300 hitter with power is not an easy thing to achieve in this era. Not a great defensive player - but not a pure DH caliber either. Did win an MVP and is generally regarded as an all around good guy and liked by the press. Loyalty to Cincy viewed as a positive. 6x AS - again low end of the range of HOF.

He might surprise and sneak in one day. Won’t be mad if he makes it - only if guys like Dave Parker don’t get the nod first.

 

[BMR Genie]

Sad to think that he didn't get the chance to finish his last game.

 

[2the9s]

Jay Jaffe's JAWS score has him as better than the average HOF 1st baseman. That's good enough for me.

 

[phillyflyers]

Disagree. To be in Baseball Hall of Fame, you need to be among the greatest ever players to play. The elite of the elite.

Guys like Scott Rolen getting in are a disgrace. He isn't among the best baseball players ever. Plenty of other guys not deserving are in not just him.

I hate that standards are getting lower everywhere instead of higher. Next thing you know, we'll have prostitutes running for President.

 

[jjgold]

The Hall of Fame is too water down in most sports now

 

[djefferis]

I hate that standards are getting lower everywhere instead of higher. Next thing you know, we'll have prostitutes running for President.

Or convicted convicts or senile old men who cant conquer a flight of stairs.

The HOF may have been intended as being “elite” at one time - but we passed that long ago. It’s now the hall of really really good - if not just really good.

To me there should be “automatic” qualifications- say 4 MVP/Cy Young’s - 12 time all-star (voted in), or 16 or more gold glor something like that - those levels suggest “great” to me.

Then give the other inductees a special wing or plaque - they got in, but not on achievement solely - maybe it was injury, maybe it was just bad luck.

People point to guys like Rolen - I’ll toss more than a few other names out there - Billy Williams, Phil Niekro, Bert Blyleven, Baines / goes on and on. Great players with long careers who racked up stats.

Also - keep in mind the HOF pre 1960 was a lot smaller group of teams and the guys who made it played in the “golden era” where baseball was king. Now it’s FB or BK - baseball is an afterthought.

 

[phillyflyers]

Or convicted convicts or senile old men who cant conquer a flight of stairs.

The HOF may have been intended as being “elite” at one time - but we passed that long ago. It’s now the hall of really really good - if not just really good.

To me there should be “automatic” qualifications- say 4 MVP/Cy Young’s - 12 time all-star (voted in), or 16 or more gold glor something like that - those levels suggest “great” to me.

Then give the other inductees a special wing or plaque - they got in, but not on achievement solely - maybe it was injury, maybe it was just bad luck.

People point to guys like Rolen - I’ll toss more than a few other names out there - Billy Williams, Phil Niekro, Bert Blyleven, Baines / goes on and on. Great players with long careers who racked up stats.

Also - keep in mind the HOF pre 1960 was a lot smaller group of teams and the guys who made it played in the “golden era” where baseball was king. Now it’s FB or BK - baseball is an afterthought.

Smaller teams isn't an excuse. In fact, there is no excuse. You're either one of the greatest players ever or you aren't. Scott Rolen isn't deserving and neither are the players you mentioned.

Standards have been lowered. Next thing you know, a prostitute that no one voted for will somehow be the nominee for her party and run for President.

It's such a damn shame. This country is doomed.

 

[mr_klc]

He'll get in. One of the toughest outs in the game for over a decade. Stayed with one team the entire time.

 

[MinnesotaFats]

0%

Better Q

Given Mike Trouts injuries, and the fact that Judge & Harper the same age and will pass him up in every career stat, is Trout going to be a HOFr if he doesn't get 500 hrs?

 

[djefferis]

If Trout doesn’t hit 500 - I don’t see it for him.

Great hitter - career potentially cut short.

The 500 HR mark to me is no longer “elite”.

 

[Archie]

how many 3 time MVPs are there that are not in hall?





Trout with 3 plus FOUR runner ups.

if Sandy can get in with 8 good years...

 

[MinnesotaFats]

how many 3 time MVPs are there that are not in hall?





Trout with 3 plus FOUR runner ups.

if Sandy can get in with 8 good years...

Sandy had a lot of Jewish help from the press.

When you look at Dale Murphy as the best player of the 80s, 2x mvp, leader or 2nd in every statistical category, and Roger Maris, another 2x mvp and 5x WS winner in 60s, plus the 61 in 61, both got snubbed for the exact reasons Trout is sitting on the fence.

And that magic # might be 550 these days...I'd think both Judge & Harper get there as his peers, can't put all 3 in.

 

[MinnesotaFats]

I almost forgot that Gonzalez has 450 hrs & 2 mvps.

Bonds has like 7
A Rod has 3
Clemons has 7 CYA

I mean, if it's OK for a dude to box women and get rewarded for it internationally, and MLB to re write the history books with HS caliber stats from the negro leagues, I'm having a hard time justifying the steroid black list.

 

[djefferis]

Koufax was beyond dominate though those 8 years. There simply was no equal to him in his period of dominance.

Trout was great - but if you ask every manager what one offensive player would you take for a season on offense - I suspect there would be a decent amount not picking Trout. He might be the most picked - but far from a landslide.

Koufax on the other hand would be the most in demand pitcher in his prime hands down.

 

[Archie]

3 MVPs is more than 2

 

[Ace7550]

If Votto doesn't make HOF...

 

[Archie]

MVP
Rank Most Valuable Player Award Shares
1. Barry Bonds (7 wins) 9.30
2. Stan Musial* (3 wins) 6.96
3. Albert Pujols (3 wins) 6.91
4. Mike Trout (3 wins) 6.53
5. Ted Williams* (2 wins) 6.43
6. Lou Gehrig* (2 wins) 5.98
7. Willie Mays* (2 wins) 5.94
8. Mickey Mantle* (3 wins) 5.79
9. Henry Aaron* (1 win) 5.45
Joe DiMaggio* (3 wins) 5.45
11. Alex Rodriguez (3 wins) 5.23
12. Mike Schmidt* (3 wins) 4.96
13. Frank Robinson* (2 wins) 4.84
14. Frank Thomas* (2 wins) 4.79
15. Miguel Cabrera (2 wins) 4.68
16. Charlie Gehringer* (1 win) 4.42
17. Jimmie Foxx* (3 wins)

 

[phillyflyers]

If Trout's career ended today, he doesn't have a shot at the HOF.

.299 Career BA
378 HRs
1648 Hits
954 RBI

Anyone who thinks these numbers qualify for the HOF please lay off the Meth.